News & Updates

Stub & Herb’s Ch-ch-cha-changes…

Sorry… the above rock-n-roll blip was uncalled for… in any case, here’s some info from Jon (harvested from BA) at Stub & Herb’s about some changes with Stub & Herb’s and local beer. The first few paragraphs resonate heavily with the MNBeer crowd. The latter will likely ruffle some feathers. Though we don’t necessarily agree 100% with what Jon has to say (though we applaud the focus on local beer 100%), these are his words in their entirety & you can form you own opinions. Cheers!

I am about to make some changes that may make some of you unhappy. We have worked really hard at Stub’s to turn our place into a haven of great American craft beers over the last three years. It has been a blast. However, now there are many great beer bars that do a fantastic job of supporting craft beer in our community.

When we made our change a few years back it was a goal of mine to support local beer as well as craft beer. Somewhere along the line, I strayed from my commitment to the local guys. We have not supported breweries like Summit, Flat Earth and Brau Brothers to the degree that I think we should. In the last few months, all of the breweries that I just mentioned have stepped up their game by offering products that continue to get better and more consistent. All of the local breweries deserve more support from us at Stub’s.

From now on, you can expect to see more locally produced beer at Stub’s and less of the other great American craft brands that are available in our market. I am sure that this commitment will mean that I will no longer be on the short list of bars that is considered for some of the limited availability kegs that come into MN. Usually, not supporting a brewery’s everyday brands costs you when the specialty stuff comes available. I realize that having specialty and hard to find kegs at Stub’s is how I made friends on this site. I am sure some of you will be disappointed with my decision. I apologize; however, I know the struggles of operating a small, local business. I will be happier watching Stub and Herb’s dollars being spent to support companies that employ local people, use local resources and give us a reason to be proud of the fact that we are Minnesotans.

I want to make clear that my new commitment will be to quality, local beer. Some of the local guys make some real stinkers! I will not buy bad beer just because it is local. I will also not buy beer from companies that sell themselves as MN-made and produce their products in other states. I have seen the look of disappointment in quite a few customers faces when I get asked where the Fulton Brewery is located (Because the answer is WI). I don’t have time for businessmen when there are some actual breweries trying to establish themselves in my community.

Sorry for the rant. I just wanted you guys to hear it from me first.


  1. Dr. Beergloss says:


    You are an ignoramus. We live in the best of all possible beer worlds.

  2. Jonny says:

    Dr. Beergloss-

    A little tribute to ‘Candide’? I can get behind that!

  3. David Berg says:

    Hmmm…here I thought Portland had a vibrant scene because they support local breweries…perhaps I was just confused when I *lived* there. There is bad beer in Portland, and there always has been. But the people of PDX support their local brewers…which I believe is what Jon said he was doing in the first place.

    The way this thread has devolved, while not surprising, is somewhat disappointing. Seems to me people not supporting their local breweries led to quite a consolidation in the past. If you can’t learn from history, you will be doomed to repeat it.

    If beer has a technical flaw, by all means, point it out. But criticizing simply because you don’t like it? And you think the brewer is going to change why? Hopefully brewers are making what they like to drink. If the beer isn’t good, the market will determine that. I know people hate to hear it…but I’m not making beer for you. I’m making it for me. I assume (and hope) that enough people will enjoy it to allow me to continue making it. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not.

  4. Mag says:

    Yeah, I’m gonna call “shenanigans” on at least one of you posting comments under several different names and e-mail addresses. That’s weak and a bit of a troll move. You wanna play Jekyll and Hyde, you should take it elsewhere.

  5. Kristen England says:


    “I know people hate to hear it…but I’m not making beer for you. I’m making it for me.”

    This is one of the most awesome quotes I have ever heard a brewer make and absolutely spot on. My only concern is when a brewery calls something its not. We all use vernacular to understand what everyone is talking about. If you tell me the beer is a pils I have expectations of something pilsy coming my way. If not, then I get disappointed.

  6. Chad says:

    I don’t mind this Stub’s change one bit, mainly because I don’t have enough time, patience or money to subscribe to Pokemon Theory of Beer Snobbery. If I miss a buzz beer or 10, life will still go on(I hope) and I’m sure I’ll be able to find a beer that my liver will enjoy.

    It’s just beer.

  7. steve says:


    I don’t think it’s about not liking it. There are many local beers I don’t like that are well done, but just not to my taste.

    Then there are crappy beers with flaws.

    I don’t care if you’re making beer for me or not. If it’s good I’ll drink it. If it isn’t then we should be able to say something.

    In the end, the market will determine who succeeds and who doesn’t, but maybe some legit feedback could help some people adjust and improve.

  8. Dave MN says:

    David –

    I don’t know that I expect the brewer to change, unless they look at what they are doing as a business and not just a personal hobby. You can live so long on the fact that you’re “local” before the quality, or lack thereof, catches up. I’ve given Fulton several chances at several different bars (in case it was the fault of bad tap lines), and it just hasn’t come through as a beer of the quality for which I will pay $5 a pint or $8 a 6/pack. I understand that my opinion isn’t worth squat if Fulton doesn’t care about my business or the business of other beer drinkers that share my opinion. However, I have to believe that there is always going to be a drive to improve amongst these entrepreneurs, and that standing still on what might be a recipe that is one or two tweaks from a breakthrough is not going to be a viable option to them or most brewers.

    I’ve had plenty of beer by brewers that brew for themselves and their tastes, and it has been good. As I mentioned before, I really *wanted* Fulton to be good, and I’m hoping that there will be a day soon that I can proudly order one of their beers and show my support. However, with their current offerings, today is not that day.

  9. Dr Beergloss says:


    Everything is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

  10. Duke says:


    “I don’t care if you’re making beer for me or not. If it’s good I’ll drink it. If it isn’t then we should be able to say something.” So if a beer is “good” you will drink it even if its a style you dont prefer?

  11. MNAndy says:

    Long time lurker, first time poster… this post resonates with me for a few reasons:

    1. I’m a hopeless Bell’s Fanboy, and anything that lowers the number of Bells taps at Sterbs I’m against… heck Larry Bell could drink an Oberon and piss in the bottle and put an Oarsman label on it and I’d still drink it (that is how Oarsman is made, right?). In all seriousness, the Michigan Brews at Sterbs (Founder’s, Bell’s, Dark Horse, etc) are one of the bigger draws for me.

    2. I’ve drank beers in brewpubs, breweries and bars from Escondido to Bar Harbor and far too many places in between, and a level of homerism is prevalent throughout the US, but IME we in the midwest “protect” our own moreso than most. We are blessed with a handful of very good, possibly even world class breweries and brew pubs (Schells, Surly, Town Hall, Summit and Fitger’s come to mind). But it is possible that some beer produced within the state is less than great, even by some of those brewers. And often I think it’s seen as taboo to say you don’t like Brewer X’s IPA if they’re local. While I do believe taste is highly subjective, I think most experienced craft beer drinkers know/ can tell when a beer meets their expectation. And that should truly be the measure of whether or not as a consumer you purchase something again. And I for one would never let an opinion I read on the interweb keep me from trying a brew I haven’t had before. Because forming my own opinions is far more important to me than yours… sorry, get over it.

    3. Now as far as Fulton, I’m not saying I agree or disagree w/ how Jon called out Fulton, but I do agree with the opinion that their brews are not on par with my expectations for the given styles. To give constructive feedback (all my opinions clearly)… SCOV is thin (needs more body) and could use more late hops (flavor and aroma) that goes for the cask and tap versions I’ve had (BTW, the Cask @ EP OC in Feb, I was the guy/jerk who when talking to the Fulton guys and EP OC’s manager, expressed my opinion that an IPA cask should not come out still/flat… so Jon, the exploding casks may be an over-reaction to my feedback, sorry) . As far as WA, it is not befitting of my expectations for the style, IBUs and body seem low and flavor is lacking any real punch. On the positive side, it’s not the hot mess a lot of fresh imperial stouts are when drank way too young…

    4. Finally, being a complete and hopeless beer geek, the name Sweet Child of Vine has annoyed me from day 1… hops grow on Bines not Vines. I’d expect a professional brewer to know this. Heck, I’m only a marginal homebrewer and beer geek and I know it. It’s not like the alliteration doesn’t work for Bine?

  12. Axl Rose says:

    Professionalism is the winning factor here. Jon went the way of Alvey and decided to purposely be a dick. That is fine when you are a troll on the internet, but not if you represent a business. Jon and Alvey are super nice guys and represent businesses I like and frequent, I second guess my patrionage with crap like this. Dang! learn to bite your tounge. Oh and Fulton guys, I am going to sue you, you beer name sounds to much like my song name.

  13. David Berg says:

    Oddly, I think that in all the “chatter” the essence of Jon’s post was missed…

    “I want to make clear that my new commitment will be to quality, local beer. Some of the local guys make some real stinkers! I will not buy bad beer just because it is local.”

    How exactly is that a bad thing? He’s saying exactly what all of you are saying, yet you’ve gone on for 60+ replies talking about the least important point. That’s the disappointing part. Here I thought this website was MNBeer….

  14. Joey says:

    @MNAndy For the win! The whole vine/bine thing has always bothered me. Probably cuz I’m going for plant scientist(even before I drank beer I knew the difference) and now that I homebrew and beer geek out it still bothers me.

    It’s not the reason I don’t drink fulton, I’m just not an IPA kind of person, hoppy doesn’t do it for me(overdosed once on hops at ABR and now sensitive as hell, trying to build up my tolerance again).

  15. Aaron says:

    So am I going to have to go to St Paul to get Bell’s Rye Stout?

  16. Steve says:


    Great point. It’s not a bad thing at all, but Jon’s post, stating that there are stinkers, is a very rare thing and a breath of fresh air when there have been far too many yes men on the beer scene trying to snuggle up to their favorite brewer.

    I applaud the balls Jon had to say what he said.

  17. Mikey says:

    I think this is funny.

  18. Chip W. says:

    And now Fulton has a brewery coming soon to downtown Mpls.
    I’m just saying.

  19. Kyle says:

    Chip: Let’s just hope they can get some recipe tweaks in! Moving to a new system will require some changes anyway.

    Also, coming soon? Last I heard they were still looking for capital.

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